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216 to 235 swap
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49er5w
New User
| Posts: 3
| Joined: 04/09
Posted: 04/29/09 12:11 PM
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My 49 3100 has a 216 engine with the old babbit bearings, altho I am not having any problems with it and it is origional I have been told that I should maybe change it out with a newer [62]235. Any thoughts on the matter?
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olblue
User
| Posts: 66
| Joined: 12/08
Posted: 04/29/09 06:58 PM
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I think that matching VINs are really cool
I would drive the 216 and if you ever have serious issues down the road, swap out for a late model V8. You may want to pull the head on the stovebolt tho and put in harden valve seats and new guides. With out harden seats even with lead substitute the valves will likely stick and with solid lifters you will bend a pushrod. been there.
**************** 1950 Chevy 3600
1942 Ford Jeep
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Posted: 04/30/09 12:36 PM
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Everyone wants to go with V8's. They are OK. But if you want to stay inline, the late (high pressure 235) is the way to go. The 216 in reliable, but limited on power and durability. Yes I know of 216's over 150,000 miles. If you plan to cruse a lot without highway speeds, run the 216 till it drops. You will need to add hardened valve seats to the the heads though, even if you go with the 235. buffalotrux
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Posted: 04/30/09 06:10 PM
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I can't say specifically, but at some point, the water pump height changed. Shouldn't be a big issue, except for changing to the later fan shroud.
Since 216 & 235 are both 'stovebolt' family, it should be a pretty straight up swap.
You might also consider an 'advanced design' motor. I'm completely satisfied with my worn out, oil-burning 250. 194, 230, 250, and 292 are virutally interchangeable, plus they use the same bell housing as small-block & big-block.
********** 1949 Chevy 1 1/2ton, home-built hydraulic wrecker. Rustoleum industrial black, with flames. Flamethrowers out 5" dual stacks. 1962 Chevy C-20, 402BB, 4-speed, 3.90 positrack. Hauls my camper.... among other things.
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Posted: 05/01/09 05:02 AM
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Fan shroud? LOL
The water pump difference came from using a car motor and not a truck motor. The two motors will swap out in a few hours with almost no modifications.
I have checked into the valve seat issue and there are just as many articles showing no modifications are needed with todays fuels as there are saying it needs to be done. I've run many old motors and have never had a problem with my valves or push rods. But I don't beat the motors either. Hell, I had a Vega last 293 thousand miles and it still didn't burn oil. Trick is never let it run hot and check/change your oils. I have had to help others remove thier fuel tanks and clean them out to get the lead out that clogs up the fuel lines.
I will tell you to modify/fabricate an oil line from the oil pump to the 3/8 inch plug located at the center of the motor on the right side just below the valve cover on the 235. If you take the cover off you'll see a small pipe to feed oil to the top of the valves. Not sure why GM never hooked the line up, but you'll hear a difference in the valve noise when it's working right.
I agree with buffalotrux, run the 216 till it absolutely needs to be replaced. There will not be that much of a difference in the two motors that it warrants tearing up the truck unless you are planning on a street rod of rat ride.
07 GMC crew diesel 53 3100 original 53 3100 rat 51 3100 streetrod 49 F1 panel
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Posted: 05/02/09 03:41 PM
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Yes, fan shroud. All the pickups and trucks I've had came with one.
Back on topic: Unless you run a lead additive, or substitute, the valve seats WILL receed into the head. It won't be fast, and if you keep the valves adjusted, you may never realize it. I used to run a gallon of diesel with the gas in my 51, every so often. Mostly because I'm too cheap to buy regular additive. I don't know if the new ultra-low sulfur diesel is worth the effort. Of course, around here, I didn't have the tree-hugging-tailpipe-sniffers to deal with, either.
I will agree with the others, on one point. There is no reson to fix what isn't broken. The only reason I swapped out the 235 in my 62, was that I wanted to pull my camper with more confidence. I still have the 235, and will keep it until I need it, or someone needs it more.
I supposed it comes down to what you intend to do with the truck, and how confident you are, that the 216 will hold up to your use.
********** 1949 Chevy 1 1/2ton, home-built hydraulic wrecker. Rustoleum industrial black, with flames. Flamethrowers out 5" dual stacks. 1962 Chevy C-20, 402BB, 4-speed, 3.90 positrack. Hauls my camper.... among other things.
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olblue
User
| Posts: 66
| Joined: 12/08
Posted: 05/02/09 07:58 PM
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I'm OK also with fan shroud's in place, but what I can't get past is Huntington's Vega motor with 293K miles.. I mean, even if one did get over 100K miles without a warped head, where was it mounted? Most Vega's started to rust out in the show room
**************** 1950 Chevy 3600
1942 Ford Jeep
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Posted: 05/05/09 05:02 AM
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Naw, at the time I lived in Tucson so rust just wasn't a factor. Did run across many warped heads on Vega's tho. Had the GT model so I could keep a close watch on the temps and lube's. Do my own changes so I knew what is going in and what comes out and really don't have problems with any of my cars. What sucked is I fell for one of my buddys arguments and we made a dragster/streetrod out of her. She was fast but never could depend on her in the heat anymore so I sold her.
Now,as for the shroud thing. I've had nine 47 to 54's and ride with about ten others and sorry to say it but (at least here in NY) I've yet to see a factory shroud on one and for that matter see one in a sales cat. or assembly manual.
Knowing AZ and TX temps I wouldn't put it past GM to install them out there but at least five on my trucks were TX trucks and they didn't have them.
As for the lead thing, time will tell. Like I said, just as many articles say it wont hurt anything as there are saying it will. Just in my experience the additive itself caused more problems. I run about 2k a year on my 235 and she hasn't given me any signs of problems in five years running. But... I do have two other 235's ready just in case LOL In AZ I had many old cars and never put in the additive and never had a problem. That was running everything from my 33 to my 65 and I had a 78 Bronco that I ran cross country about six times and ran whatever was along the highway (rust took that one away LOL)
07 GMC crew diesel 53 3100 original 53 3100 rat 51 3100 streetrod 49 F1 panel
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olblue
User
| Posts: 66
| Joined: 12/08
Posted: 05/06/09 04:16 PM
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I assumed you guys were not talking about fan shrouds on the 47-54s. When I last had my fan off of my '50 216, I painted the tips of the blades flaming orange so I have an idea when I am gonna get bit..seems to have saved my fingers so far.
Huntington, I have to appreciate your care and feeding of your rides.. noticed the Vega was a "her" . I actually had a Monza that I really enjoyed, used and abused.. but it was definitely a "he" and I sold it before 100K on the Odo to some unsuspecting college student. Guess that's why I'm a truck guy. Cars let you use them, may even treat you well, but a truck works for you.
**************** 1950 Chevy 3600
1942 Ford Jeep
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Posted: 05/06/09 06:10 PM
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"Guess that's why I'm a truck guy. Cars let you use them, may even treat you well, but a truck works for you."
Well said. The same argument can be made for cats & dogs.
********** 1949 Chevy 1 1/2ton, home-built hydraulic wrecker. Rustoleum industrial black, with flames. Flamethrowers out 5" dual stacks. 1962 Chevy C-20, 402BB, 4-speed, 3.90 positrack. Hauls my camper.... among other things.
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Posted: 05/11/09 06:09 AM
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I hear you on the trucks. I haven't owned a car since my Mustang convert (built for 1/4 mile trips) and I killed that car. Owned trucks since 16 and remember first truck I drove was a 62 international. I've upgraded to the diesel's so I wont keep killing my trucks pulling trailers. In the process right now of transplanting the chassis and 7.3 turbo diesel of a 95 E-350 under my 49 Ford Panel so I can pull trailers (camping, box, and flatbeds) with a classic and use the 07 for work.
Have a great body and no drivetrain under the 49 so good truck to build without offending the purists. Hoping to be a econo build for under $4k so we'll see. . . .
07 GMC crew diesel 53 3100 original 53 3100 rat 51 3100 streetrod 49 F1 panel
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Posted: 05/12/09 07:44 PM
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Won't the van chassis set the motor back too far, under the 49? I figure a pickup frame would get you a closer starting point.
********** 1949 Chevy 1 1/2ton, home-built hydraulic wrecker. Rustoleum industrial black, with flames. Flamethrowers out 5" dual stacks. 1962 Chevy C-20, 402BB, 4-speed, 3.90 positrack. Hauls my camper.... among other things.
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Posted: 05/13/09 03:44 AM
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Wont know till I get the body off the van chassis. The panel has a very large engine bay and a long nose so I'm thinking I should have the room. Because the panel is going to be mounted at the stock height I should have clearance under the body for the trans etc. I do know going in that the chassis will need to be shortened about 18 inches and the wheels will be out a little. To compensate for the wheels I'm going to see what dually wheels will look like on the van to bring the tires in a little
Nice part is I've done a few chassis swaps and can fabricate most of anything I need if I have to change things to make them work. As it's been said before 'some cuttin, weldin, and duct tape you can make anything work' LOL
I'm actually hoping the steering wont give me trouble but we'll see * * *
07 GMC crew diesel 53 3100 original 53 3100 rat 51 3100 streetrod 49 F1 panel
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