'77 C30 with more ideas than money.

Hi all,

I've been lurking a bit and decided to stick my toe in and see what comes.  I have a '77 C30 camper special that I have recently acquired.  The truck and I have no personal history and I am actually new to Chevy's so there is no real preconception for how this 'should' be.  I'm not a purist and am not looking to restore this to showroom condition but I don't look for things to change just to change them either.  I have ideas on what I would like to do with it but I don't have the skills for much of what I would like to do.  I do have people I can lean on here and there but I'd like to bounce ideas off you folks.  Part of my problem is prioritizing my list.  I want to turn this into something that I can drive affordably.  I may have the occasional load of firewood but I don't plan on doing a lot of heavy work or towing with this.

First, the good.  This is a straight truck, there doesn't appear to be any significant structural or body damage.  It also runs. I believe it was primarily a farm truck in it's previous life.  It either worked hard or it sat.  The lady I bought it from didn't use it much, mostly to haul a few loads of firewood each year or the occasional dump run.  Other than that, it sat.  It appears to be all original with the exception of the radio.  I'm still trying to figure out what I am dealing with but here is what I know so far.  It has a 454 with a rebuilt QuadraJet carb.  I know it is rebuilt because I helped with that little project.  It also has the turbo 350 trans and a GM 14 bolt Posi rear end.  Being the camper special, it originally had 2 batteries but someone removed one and hacked out the wiring for the Driver side battery.  It came with factory A/C, but someone removed that at some point.

Second, What do I know is wrong?  I'm pretty sure the rear main is leaking.  It's 35 years old so there are no surprises here.  Power steering is leaking.  Brakes are shot.  

Third, what do I want to see?  

Brakes: Obviously the brakes are a priority.  The rear aren't working and the front left appears to have a frozen caliper. I really don't like drum brakes and so I want to convert the rear to disc.  My understanding is that this will require a new master cylinder and proportioning valve.  I figure the conversion and a full front brake job will run me around $700-$900.

Drivetrain:  An incredible amount of money can be spent here.  I'm not looking to turn this into a super go-fast street rod.  Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of going fast when I push the long skinny pedal, but that isn't my goal here.  I'm not loaded and I want to be able to enjoy it.  This is not going to be some show queen.  Eventually I would like a nice paint job, but it is still going to be parked outside.  I grew up driving my dad's '71 F100 and am looking for that same kind of full size big iron feel.  In order to make that drivable though, I plan to make changes that will improve fuel economy.  It's a 454, I get that.  I don't drive with a lead foot though and so I think there are changes that can be made to get more economy out of it.  I am considering changing the gearing on the rear end. I would also like to swap the tranny at some point for something with overdrive.  The engine runs, but feels a bit tired.  I think a rebuild is in order.  I am not looking at building a race engine but I'm not opposed to making some changes while I'm in it.  I understand part of emmisions control at that time was to change the cam to retard power and economy.  That would be something I would change.  I'd also like to put a good intake and a better carb on it so it can breathe easier.  I am thinking about throwing a gear drive on there as well.

Body, cosmetics:  There is a bit of rust in the usual spots.  Obviously that has to be fixed before painting it.  The passenger door should be replaced.  I'm hoping to be able to adjust the door until such time as a paint job becomes practical.  I also need to fix the tailgate hinge pin on the right side.  I would like to change the suspension to an air ride.  It can still handle the heavier load when needed but will ride smoother the rest of the time.  I want to gut the interior and start over, but I don't have a plan there yet.  I want to keep the traditional feel but would like to update the dash.  At a minimum I want a tach in there.  I think I want to update the HVAC and bring back the AC.  It doesn't have to be original, I would prefer something that is efficient.  I'd like to update the wipers, not having delay in Washington State is a really bad idea.

I would really love to do a full body off job on this but the budget isn't there and I don't see that happening in the foreseeable future.  Anyway, that is the rough idea I have.  What thoughts do you guys have on this?  

I my self am starting a restore to a drivable condition. 10 years ago I started a restore that didn't go so well. I didn't have any knowledge of these trucks and didn't have anyone giving my advise. I will try to help you the best I can to prioritize what might need to be done first. Since it looks like you want it to be a running project I can tell you that starting with the engine-trans-brakes-rear end are good places to start. Right now I'm working on my new 66 c-10 restore and that's where I'm kind of starting. Last time I started a rebuild I ripped it down to the frame. Ran out of money and had to get rid of it. Since then I have found another truck and am starting all over again. If I had of just taken it slow I would still have the truck I started 10 years ago and would probably be done by now. So what I can tell you from experience is take your time. Get her running then worry about getting it all pretty. At least if you run out of funds after you get it in running condition you don't have to just look at it sitting there and wondering if you will ever see it run. Well just my thoughts anyway. You can follow my build if you want at 1966c10  

first... lets cover the brakes....   starting in the rears....  when the REAR DRUMs are working properly they are MORE Than enough to stop that truck....  those are MASSIVE rear drum brakes..

if eventually you end up running across a disc brake rear end.. grab it..  

there are  several different brake systems that could be on that truck..

Application: With JB8, JF9 brake system
or
Application: With JB7 brake system

you will need to check the RPO sticker on your truck...

it could be anywhere.. i had a 77 C20 454.. but i don't recall where my RPO equipment sticker was.. my brother in law had a 77 C35 454. they waited 8 months for it to be built..

they are either under the hood on an inner fender.. on the air cleaner lower cover..  on the drivers door jam...  or on the inside of the glove box door..  

its got a whole bunch of 3 digit codes.. that describe exactly what parts your truck was built with..

reman  front calipers for the JB7 version brakes are really cheep... the other systems cost more..


i will be around.. take some pictures.. upload them to photobucket... paste the img links here..  

The thing with this project is that I intend to keep it in running condition every step of the way.  Obviously it won't run while the engine is being rebuilt, but it won't be torn down waiting on money either.  Each mini project will be paid for before I start it.  The brakes are JB8 JF9 variety.  Admittedly, I don't have a problem with the performance of drum brakes in general but I really hate working on drums.  I understand I probably won't have to do a lot of brake work in the future given this probably won't be driven a great deal, but if I can get the mileage up high enough I could almost see using this as a daily driver for work.

In this age of total comfort built into every vehicle, I miss the old trucks that feel like trucks.  I don't have a problem making them a bit more comfortable but in the end it will still feel like a truck, not a car.

For the drivetrain, given that I am not an aggressive driver I feel good about being able to get some good mileage out of it.  I plan on a multi part approach to this which will probably start with changing the gear ratio in the rear end.  I'd love to change the tranny but that will more than likely wait a while as I don't have one just lying around.  

I do look forward to doing a full engine rebuild but I plan on doing it on a budget.  I don't have a problem with replacing parts, you expect to have to do that, but I am not turning this into a super high performance race engine.  I don't plan on changing to aluminum heads or anything like that.  I am hoping to be able to reuse my existing heads and have not seen any reason that shouldn't happen.  I don't know that I need to replace the crank but I plan on changing the cam.  The heads would obviously have to be completely rebuilt to match the cam, but I don't need to spend the money on super high end parts.  I'll budget to replace the pistons, but we'll see if they need to go.  I am thinking that I will probably change out the wiring harness at the same time.  I am not sure if I will do it here or when I do the interior.

I talked about doing the air ride suspension.  This pickup was setup to haul heavy loads, but it won't for the most part.  Those same springs that make it possible to handle a 1 ton load make for a very rough ride when empty.  Part of my thinking is that by being able to soften the ride when empty I'll actually improve fuel economy as well.  Less bouncing means that the tires stay in better contact with the road which should improve performance.

Somewhere in all this I need to deal with some of the smaller issues.  The defrost motor is in need of repair.  The HVAC controls don't work well, I think the cable controls are in need of an overhaul.  One of the fuel tank fill tubes is leaking.  Power steering is leaking.  Wiper Fluid bottle is shot.

Eventually I am sure I will have more money into this than it is worth but I am thinking everything will have been gone through and been refurbished or replaced.  When I am done though I figure this truck will last the rest of my life.  

Here are a few pictures.  Eventually I'll take some more of different problem areas.




 

Duplicate.  

STIFF RIDE... cheep fix... change to CHEAPEST shocks you can get..   12 to 20 buck versions will reduce the damping force and smooth out your ride...


MPG...  invest in a air fuel ratio display.. they start at about 29 bucks at a lot of parts stores.. have an oxygen sensor mounting bung installed in the exhaust pipe just past the manifold connection..   this will allow you to monitor the air fuel ratio.. as you drive..  so you can fine tune the carb..

there is in MANY but not all gm quadrajets an adjustment called the APT.. adjustable part throttle..

this limits the downward movement of the primary metering rods...  maximum lean on the primaries.

as the throttle is closed at idle.. the engine is fueled only by flow around the ends of the idle mixture needles...  as you start to open the throttle .. fuel is supplied by the idle mixture circuit but also the idle transition circuit..  now.. where the fuel economy is greatly effected...

as the throttle is opened slightly more.. the air flow is enough that the primary boosters have lowered the pressure below them to pull fuel up through the main jets.. but because the vacuum is high.. the primary metering rod holder is fully seated against the APT adjustment..  if the APT adjustment is too low.. as it comes off the idle transition.. it will go lean and require more throttle to get the power from the engine...  if its too high.. it will go rich and just use gas like crazy..

but this also affects cruise fuel economy... as at steady engine speeds.. the vacuum is high and the primary metering rod holder is pulled down against the spring..  if its too low.. the engine will be lean and need more throttle to go.. or if its too high.. your fuel mileage will suffer..








don't adjust this unless you have proven its out of adjustment with an air fuel ratio gauge.. it can be done with a special tool right thru the top of the carb...

this shaft tool with the white knob is the factory tool but no longer available.. but easily duplicated..



with a proper thexton 370 dipstick you can measure the height of the primary rod holder..



i usually mention to people to invest in a vacuum gauge also... and one of the rubber dual gauge mounts..  wire the air fuel ratio display to a plug that sticks into the cigar lighter socket.. you only need one wire from the oxygen sensor as long as the ground is good for the air fuel ratio gauge to work.. this would allow you to do a temporary install...  manifold vacuum readings are needed also...




if you want to go as far as changing the cam.. that can be done... i have a specific cam in mind.. that i have used in a lot of motors..  

Sounds like an inexpensive way to keep it running for now. If I can get the mileage out of it prior to the rebuild, GREAT!  Gives me an excuse to drive it more.  I'll have to read through this a few more times when not on pain pills as some of this is going right past me.  I still plan on the engine rebuild as those who have looked at it all seem to agree that it sounds tired.  

The carb in your picture doesn't look quite the same as the one on my truck.  Does that rule out the AMT on mine?    

in your picture...

from the left..

needle and seat,    APT adjustment.. primary rod well...

so yes it does have an apt adjustment..

you might want to look at the inside of the cover.. knock out the plug that fits right infront of the air horn.. tap it to 1/8 pipe.. and screw in a 1/8 inch pipe plug that uses an allen wrench to install..

this will allow you to remove the pipe plug easily.. and tweak the APT adjustment..

i will have to measure the APT..  but i usually find some copper tubing that fits just barely over the double *** and flatten it slightly.. so it will grip.. but the OD needs to be able to CLEAR the rod sticking out the front of the power piston...

don't go adjusting it.. if you want.. there is another way..  accurately measure from the top of the float body to the flange on the APT.. remove it.. then carefully saw a slot across the Double D.. so you can turn it with a screw driver thru the newly tapped hole..